Analog clock 24 hour configuration

24 hour analog clock dials are a very strange sight indeed, I have never encountered one before. In Germany and all countries using the 24h system I have visited so far a 12 hour dial is used for analog clocks.
Not sure how much people want a 24h analog dial; you might just go with having the normal 12h dial for the 24h system as most people would expect it.

A simple workaround to get rid of am/pm without screwing the clockface is
#cp /usr/share/docky/ClockTheme/default/* /usr/share/docky/ClockTheme/default-24/

Nice try. But in case you didn't notice, the hour hand is still 24 hrs. Thus you now have a 24 hr hour hand over a 12 hr clock face. Which means it doesnt even show a correct time now!

<facepalm> of course.
back to the am/pm business. still would love to get a normal 24h, but after reading the linked bug report it looks like this was never intended.

"I do not see the point in having [...] a 24 hr digital clock with a 12 hr analog."

Well, you might not, but this is basically the layout everyone living in a country using the 24 hours format expects.

Even though Wikipedia claims that "In the 20th century, the 24 hour analog dial was adopted by radio amateurs, pilots, submariners, and for military use." That may well be right.

This is fixed in my attached date-enhance branch along with day-first support and a resized 24 hour digital clock.

Ok first off, I do not believe users will be switching back and forth from analog <-> digital. They might at first just to see the two, but then they will pick one and stick to it.

Second, if you have a 24 hr digital clock selected and go to analog, it will pick (if it exists) the 24 hr variant of the theme. You can still change this to the 12 hr variant!

Given those 2 facts, there seems to be no need to do anything at all.

Excuse me but the idea for a 24 hour clock is just weird, for the extremal small number people that do use it we should make a gconf key. A 24 hour analog clock it just looks odd and unprofessional.

On a different note, my branch adds more behavior than this, for example resize digital clock (when in 24 hour format), and a option to put the day first (Non american notation). Could you take a look at that too?

We will not be adding more options in the UI.

I was planning on having the datetime strings as gconf keys, so the user could specify exactly what the hover text showed.

Okay fair enough,

The I just pushed a version that checks ShortDateFormat instead, the ui option is removed but the gconf setting remains.

In r1706 the clock still has unexpected behavior.
If set to 24-hour format analog, it shows a dial with 24 hours when most would expect a 12-hour clock face as is usual. The workaround of setting it to digital, then to 12-hour format and then back to analog fixes the visual face, but the hover text is in 12-hour format.
There doesn't seem to be any obvious way to change this behavior.

If you are asking for a 12 hr analog clock face and 24 hr hover text, that is not possible. The hover text must match the icon's display format (12/24 hr).

You can select 12 or 24 hr analog by selecting a theme. Themes with '-24' in the name are 24 hr, themes without are 12 hr.

You misunderstood, he ment that in analog mode you can not switch between 24 hour and 12 hour format. Honestly I cant comprehend the reasoning of the clock applet. I don't think 24 hour analog clocks exist. I surgest that you merge my branch or take a look at it becouse it comes of really US centric now.

/frustrated

No, *you* misunderstand (still). As I said, you select 12 hr or 24 hr analog clocks based on the *clock theme*. If you want a 12 hr analog clock, select a 12 hr clock theme. If you want a 24 hr analog clock, select a 24 hr clock theme (these themes end in '-24').

It appears you are right,

That doesn't take away from the fact that the current behaviour is just ridiculous. As pointed out numerous times; a 24 hour clock *does not exist* (or at least is very, very non-standard), changing format settings should not change the analog theme.

Also, you do realize now, there are two ways to do exactly the same thing, but depending on the view mode you can only access one of them? Changing the clock theme to a -24 hour variant *also* changes the format on the digital version! So if you are in digital mode changing format is done using the 24 hour menu option, while in analog mode you have to do it with themes item.

Apart from that, my branch introduces some other features you should consider, for example checking the user local settings when determining clock style and changing time and date sizes in 24 hour mode. (Have you seen how ridiculously small the time is when the pm/am indicator is gone?)

I probably come of a bit harsh but I just wished you took a look at my branch and considered the needs of users outside of US a bit more. If you accept that the current behaviour needs to change, I will be happy to implement all needed features my self (on your specification of course).

Greetings,

I never said what we have is perfect. But what you propose in your branch is not either and thus I wont accept it as is.

And we will support 24 hr analog themes, because they exist and we already have the code. No point removing that ability for the 1 person on the planet that wants it.

What would you like to see improved? And I don't think "We already have it implemented and it exists" is a good excuse for bad UI. That something exists but is practicly unused doesn't justify breaking all UI expectations for the rest of the users. IMHO 24 hour clock should be removed but a gconf option is also fine (for that 1 person on the planet).

No, we allow selecting themes. 24 hr themes exist. Thus, we must allow for showing a 24 hr analog clock if the user selects a 24 hr theme.

Okay, how about unlinking the time format from the clock theme. That way all functionality remains.

Robert, If Mathijs patch removes the fictitious clock and keeps the 24hr label then that would probably be ideal. I could definitely see a desire to remove a 24hr analog clock. This is probably the more correct behavior.

+1 for the removal of the 24hr analog clock

No. There are 24 hr analog clock themes. If you want to remove 24 hr analog clocks, then your only choice is to stop supporting clock themes. And I do not approve of that.

A 24 hr analog clock isnt only a theme, its also the changed hour hand behaviour. I dont see how removing that behaviour will force us to 'stop supporting clock themes'.

Mathijs Henquet

Op 30 dec. 2010 om 03:17 heeft Robert Dyer <email address hidden> het volgende geschreven:

> No. There are 24 hr analog clock themes. If you want to remove 24 hr
> analog clocks, then your only choice is to stop supporting clock themes.
> And I do not approve of that.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/593592
>
> Title:
> Analog clock 24 hour configuration
>
> Status in Docky:
> New
> Status in “docky” package in Ubuntu:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> This is somewhat related to bug #508547 in the sense that a 24 hour analog clock is a terribly odd sight even for countries using the 24h system. However, since it seems not possible to have the analog and digital clock configured separately(?), I do have a suggestion.
>
> Basically: 12-24 switching for the analog clock should also be done through the option like the one used for the digital one, not by selecting a theme.
>
> Let me sketch the situation:
> I have the clock set as digital and with 24h system on. Now if I feel like switching to analog. After doing so the clock will have the weird 24 hour look, but no biggy there, I'll just right click and turn "24-hour clock" off, right? Wrong! That option is blanked out. Instead, I have to pick select theme to switch back to the 12-hour clock. Seems a bit counter intuitive, no? Especially since changing the theme -also- sets the 24h option off.
>
> Note: I think if you plan on adding more clock themes, it would be better to make a 12h and 24h version of each of them and allowing switching between those through the actual option rather than having two themes mentioned.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/docky/+bug/593592/+subscribe

Of course the hour hand changes, what would the point of a 24 hr theme be if the hands move like a 12 hr clock?

My point is, as long as we support themes and 24 hr themes exist we must support a 24 hr clock. Or stop supporting themes. Those are your choices.

Robert, how about this: We keep the themes as is. But when analogue clock clock is selected, you *do not* disable the 24-HourClock toggle option. This would toggle the display of the *hover* text, not the theme.
This, to me, seems to be an acceptable solution for both sides and would finally allow for a clock that makes sense to the majority of people in the world.