Menu entries should show the application name *before* the description

The "issue" is not really a gnome-menus one it's just what those program set in their desktop entry

Il giorno mer, 17/02/2010 alle 11.10 +0000, Sebastien Bacher ha
scritto:
> The "issue" is not really a gnome-menus one it's just what those program
> set in their desktop entry

I agree, it was my first sentence... ;)
Nevertheless, I think there is a need of some kind of guidelines in
writing/translating menu entries to avoid confusing end users (->
usability issue).
And of course fix translations accordingly before Lucid is released...

Thank you for bringing this bug to our attention. However, a paper cut should be a small usability issue, in the default Ubuntu install, that affects many people and is quick and easy to fix. So this bug can't be addressed as part of this project.

- This bug seems to be wrong translations by the Italian empathy translations team. This problem is not present in the English version. where it says "Empathy IM client"
For further information about papercuts criteria, please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCut.

Don't worry though, this bug has been marked as "Invalid" only in the papercuts project.

it's not a gnome-menus bug either

I'm assigning the bug to the Ubuntu Italian translators, with whom it would be best to discuss this.

The passage from the old way (Name - GenericName) of translating the .desktop menu entries to the new one (X-GNOME-Fullname) has been done due to the modifications of the freedesktop specifications, and also because in Italian, using the Name before the description, would have been grammatically incorrect.

With the future passage to gnome-shell, this will not be the case anymore, since looks like there will only be the Name visible.

If you really want to see the name of the application in the menu, you need to ask each application to change their .desktop file accordingly, or to ask for a global gconf key where you can "decide" what to show in the menus (be it Name, GenericName, FullName).

What you see with Rhythmbox and gwget are definitely wrong translations. Rythmbox has been fixed too late in the cycle to be included with the default Ubuntu language-pack (will probably be with the next one), gwget was not fixed at all.

An example where the pattern "Name - GenerciName" will not work is with Totem: you will never find the name of the application.

Marking as invalid.

> The passage from the old way (Name - GenericName) of translating the
> .desktop menu entries to the new one (X-GNOME-Fullname) has been done
> due to the modifications of the freedesktop specifications, and also
> because in Italian, using the Name before the description, would have
> been grammatically incorrect.

Actually, Gnome guidelines (not yet approved as standard, anyway) only
state:

" * If Name is just the application name, leave alone
      * If there is no GenericName, leave alone

      * If Name == GenericName: remove GenericName

      * If Name embeds both the application name and the generic name
              * Add X-GNOME-FullName, with what was in Name

              * Set Name to the application name only "

No one forbid translators to set X-GNOME-Fullname to "Transmission -
Client BitTorrent" or "Empathy - Messaggistica istantanea". And about
your statement about Italian grammar correctness... well I would prefer
usability over hair-splitting: ordered lists (as grammar dictionaries,
i.e.) contain a set of "Word - Definition" (read as "Name - Generic
name"). In English "Totem Movie Player" is a grammatically correct
description, it wouldn't in Italian "Totem riproduttore multimediale";
but a dash in the middle changes everything... When translating, one
should take in account language specificity trying to not sacrifice
usability (and common sense, I would say). Of course, just my two cents.

> If you really want to see the name of the application in the menu, you
> need to ask each application to change their .desktop file accordingly,
> or to ask for a global gconf key where you can "decide" what to show in
> the menus (be it Name, GenericName, FullName).

Yes, I know, but maybe guidelines for translators about this issue would
be useful (whatever they state...).

> ** Changed in: ubuntu-translations
> Status: Triaged => Invalid
>

Sorry for the additional noise.
--
Alessio Gaeta